What does it mean to thrive as an Asian in America? For many Asian immigrant families, education was the only path to "success" or upward mobility. That's because many parents experienced and understood how stereotypes would likely limit what their children could achieve or do. Jeremy Lin shattered that expectation when he led an unexpected turnaround for the N.Y. Knicks during the NBA's 2011-12 season. As explored in the HBO documentary 38 At The Garden, his accomplishments inspired many in the Asian American community and beyond.
In episode 05 of the Glowing Up Asian podcast, Jeremy Lin and his mom, Shirley Lin, join as our guests and share their perspectives on Jeremy's journey as a student-athlete, from his early childhood dreams to navigating schoolwork and basketball practice at Harvard.
Jeremy starts his glow-up origin story by sharing just how important education was in his family. 书 (shū) or "book" is the first character in his and his brothers' Chinese names, which represents his parents’ hope that their sons would become highly educated. Shirley confirms that there was a big focus on academics, but that actually wasn't her first priority. Above all else, she believes in character building. In her words, "I think to me, successful means character building…[that] they are honorable, and they also care for other people, and they live their life to make [the] people around them better and try to honor God."
Though his parents didn't have any career path in mind for their sons, Shirley did hope that Jeremy would learn to play piano. As shared in the HBO documentary 38 At The Garden, Jeremy describes the day he quit piano as the happiest day of his life. According to Shirley, she saw through him, reflecting that "piano is my dream. Basketball is their dream. And they are not living my dream, so it's like, okay."
Throughout this episode, we covered a wide range of topics. To become a successful student-athlete, Jeremy's parents taught him how to have self-discipline and manage his time so that he could do well in school and play basketball. At the same time, the pressure to succeed took a toll on his mental health, which Jeremy later learned to manage through therapy. Based on this experience, he shares his advice to parents on how they can better support their children and recognize when things aren't okay. Jeremy also shares his mission to "redefine love for the next generation" in the work that he does off the court through impact investing and philanthropy. Jeremy and Shirley also reflected on the challenges of learning one's heritage culture and language in an immigrant family, especially as Jeremy's career has taken him back to Asia in recent years.
Glowing Up Asian is a podcast series produced by LingoAce that breaks down the stereotypes and expectations about what it means to thrive as an Asian in America. Each episode welcomes a new guest to reflect on what it was like growing up Asian, how that's changed for the next generation, and what that means for parents today. Together, we'll explore their 'glow up' origin story and the role that education and culture played in their lives while also exploring the issues that matter to the broader Asian American community.
Subscribe
Apple Podcast | Spotify | Google Podcast | YouTube | Amazon Music
Glowing Up Asian podcast show notes
Episode 05 | Interview with Jeremy Lin and his mom, Shirley Lin
On this episode, we spoke to professional basketball player and LingoAce brand ambassador Jeremy Lin about his glow-up origin story to become an athlete and his work today as an impact investor, philanthropist, and advocate for the Asian American community and beyond. We also interviewed his mom, Shirley Lin, to get her to take on what it was like to raise and support a student-athlete like Jeremy. These two interviews were filmed separately and edited in post-production so that we could get both Jeremy’s and Shirley’s perspectives on different topics side by side. (0:04) We kicked off the conversation by asking Jeremy if his parents had any dreams for him growing up. As Jeremy describes it, his parents didn’t have a specific dream for him and his brothers, but they did want them to be well-educated. In fact, 书 (shū) or “book” is the first character in their Chinese names, which represents this hope. (1:25) At the same time, they also wanted their children to be well-rounded, with his mother introducing them to music and his father to sports. That said, they never expected their son to pursue basketball professionally but supported him even as extended family urged him to quit. Jeremy shared that his grandmother, who was a renowned female doctor in her time, would ask him at every family gathering to quit basketball and pursue medicine, which he and his parents would respectfully ignore. (2:40) When asked about her dreams for her sons, Shirley confirmed there was never a specific career path that she wanted Jeremy and his brothers to pursue. Instead, she wanted her sons to have strong characters above all else. In her words, “I think to me, successful means character building…[that] they are honorable, and they also care for other people, and they live their life to make [the] people around them better and try to honor God.” She further elaborates how this goal was different for each of her sons. For example, she didn’t want the fact that Jeremy was smart and talented to go to his head. So, she wanted him to understand the importance of being humble.” (4:09)
Though Jeremy’s parents did not have a career-specific dream for their sons, we asked Shirley about her dream for her sons to learn piano. In the HBO documentary 38 At The Garden, Jeremy famously shared how being able to quit piano was the happiest day of his life. Not to let him have the last say, we asked his mom for her side of the story. (6:00) Before sharing the story, Shirley first offered some context on why she wanted her sons to play piano. “I myself love music, and I think that music or art is an outlet for people to express [their] emotions, and so I think they [will appreciate it].” She also saw music as another way to serve God, as the church needed piano players. However, her sons were always resistant to practicing, whereas there was never a fight to practice basketball. In fact, she would often use basketball as a motivator: “If you don’t finish your homework, no basketball. Then they would finish it.” (6:25) Ultimately, Shirley recognized that “Piano is my dream. Basketball is their dream. And they are not living my dream, so it’s like, okay” to quit. Interestingly, the path to quitting piano wasn’t so straightforward. Shirley started by giving Jeremy clear expectations and a time frame: “If you don’t practice three times a week, then you quit piano.” At first, he thought she was joking. But after three warnings, she told him that he no longer needed to open the piano anymore. Jeremy was shocked. Despite initially insisting that he still wanted to learn, Shirley knew her son’s heart wasn’t really in it. (7:25)
On the topic of dreams, we asked Jeremy if he had considered any other careers before he became serious about wanting to play basketball professionally. “There was a short stint when I was younger where my dream was soccer.” His first-grade teacher even documented in his “Student of the Week” poster that his dream was to play in the World Cup. Though he soon set his sights on becoming a basketball player, that poster was plastered on the wall until his first few years in the NBA. (9:27) Meanwhile, Shirley recalled another career path that Jeremy considered in middle school: dentistry. Though she was skeptical, she encouraged him to explore his newfound interest and signed him up for an online dental class. But after completing the course and lab requirement, he changed his mind, and the rest is history. (10:08)
To an outside observer, Jeremy has struck a good balance between his academics and extracurriculars. We asked him how he developed the discipline and motivation to be successful in both. Jeremy describes how his parents used incentives early on to motivate and keep him on track.“It was basically if you don’t do this, you don’t get that…so if I didn’t finish his homework, I couldn’t go play basketball. If I didn’t get straight A’s, I wasn’t allowed to play on the basketball team.” What was unique about his parents’ approach was how they adapted this rule to each child based on their actual capabilities. As Jeremy shares, “my older brother Josh could actually get straight A’s. I don’t think I ever got straight A’s, to be honest, but I was always kind of at the cusp.” As long as he was at that cusp, his parents would allow him to play basketball. (10:57) Eventually, his discipline and motivation were driven by his own conviction, especially during his college years. In his first year at Harvard, Jeremy wrestled with time management and the academic rigor of his classes. He shares, “My first year, people don’t know this, my first year at Harvard, I really struggled…like I was almost on probation…I almost failed classes.” But at this point, this was no longer a situation where his parents were telling him if you don’t have a C or above, you can’t play basketball. Instead, he understood the gravity of his position and that he needed to address and solve it on his own. (12:21)
Switching gears, we asked Jeremy about his experience with an academic subject that is near and dear to many Asian parents: math. “Math was always my best subject,” recalls Jeremy. One reason for his success was his parents’ unique approach to academics. Jeremy was given the agency to choose what he studied and how in an open dialogue with his parents. In middle school, Jeremy had advanced above his grade level in math. In a conversation with his parents, they asked him whether he wanted to stay with his grade level or take more advanced classes. “This was never forced on me...[instead] I felt like it was a conversation.” As a result, his mom arranged for Jeremy to take his math class at the local high school in the mornings, and his dad would tutor him at night. “I was able to get an 800 on my SAT Math test and … stay ahead in terms of math because my mom and dad were very supportive on that front.” (10:57) Jeremy further elaborated that even though his parents were very strict, they always kept an open line of communication. This was something that Jeremy really appreciated his parents for doing – even when decisions were made for him. Knowing that his parents “would at least explain it or hear what [he] had to say” allowed him to have a voice. His parents may not have always fully understood or agreed with him, but they would always listen. This made his parents much more open to trying a different direction if their way didn’t work out at first. (15:37)
To understand what it takes for parents to support a student-athlete, we asked Shirley for her perspective on Jeremy’s middle and high school years. By her account, it was a crazy time, and even she’s amazed by how she was able to get through those years. “Three boys and they all need time, and they all have a lot of stuff going on. But yeah, through God’s grace, I was able to do it.” (16:38) At the heart of her drive was her love for education. “I’m a very hands-on person, so I’m pretty crazy about academics, but I also think learning is fun.” When her sons were growing up, she would often look for extracurriculars, tutors, and even online classes, which at the time was not common. Adding more context to Jeremy’s story about his dad tutoring him in math at night, Shirley explains that Jeremy needed his dad to tutor him in math, not because he was doing poorly but because he jumped a grade and was taking a higher level of math. Plus, his schedule was constantly changing because of basketball. It was impossible to have a private tutor come in, so he told her husband, “You need to help him out.” This meant reviewing math lessons and doing homework at night or at the hotel during traveling tournaments. (17:14)
In recent years, Jeremy has been open about his mental health journey and how he’s learned to manage stress and the pressure that comes with success. For context, we asked him to share his experience growing up as a student-athlete in high school. Jeremy shares, “The first time that I really, really struggled was when I was a freshman in high school.” This was the year when his parents emphasized “this counts,” meaning your GPA starting your freshman year is part of your permanent record for college applications. Knowing that there was another level of expectation and consequences weighed on him heavily. “I would always play in these travel tournaments and elite competitions over the weekend. And basically, every Sunday afternoon, I would be in the car or on the plane coming back to where I lived to get ready for school on Monday…And I just remember vividly I’d be in the back of the car trying to sleep, and I couldn’t sleep. Or if I fell asleep, I would be jolted. I would wake up with nightmares of failing the test that I was going to take on Monday. It was such an uncomfortable feeling. I had no idea what was coming. Like I dreaded, I literally dreaded these Sunday nights.” (19:04) This continued in college, where he would find himself calling his parents in a panic and near tears, fearful that he would fail his test the next day. It was in these moments of anxiety that his mom would ask him, “Have you done your best? Have you prepared your hardest?” If the answer was “yes,” she would say, “then do your best. We’ll accept any result.” If the answer was “no,” then she would ask, “Well, why haven’t you? That’s not you.” She would then talk him through his moment of panic, to just do his best for now and to figure out what to do differently next time. One source of comfort was knowing that for his mom and dad, “it was really always more about the intention, the heart, and the best effort…yeah, my mom did a great of helping me through some really highly stressful situations in my life.” (20:53)
We asked Jeremy to share his advice for parents, especially those from a culture where mental health is still very much a taboo, how they can help support their children or be better at recognizing when things aren’t okay. While caveating that he’s not a parent, Jeremy shared his perspective as a son. “I would advise parents [that] the first thing you got to accomplish is you’ve got to let your children know that you love them regardless of their class, regardless of how well they do. [This gives them] a firm, secure foundation, a bedrock of security, knowing that they are fully loved and accepted no matter what the test result is, or the score, or the performance, or the competition result is. I think that is a huge step.” The second thing that Jeremy advises is to be “consistently, not just once, consistently checking up and asking questions.” What he’s realized from his own experience is that sometimes parents and children want to say something to each other but don’t know how to bridge the conversation. Parents shouldn’t expect children to understand how to do this, so instead, be the ones to proactively reach out. The third piece of advice is: when you ask, ask to listen, not to give advice. Growing up, when Jeremy’s parents would ask questions because they sensed something was wrong, he would shut down if they immediately started to provide him with a lecture after two sentences. It finally got to a point where he told them, “I don’t need you to tell me what to do. I just need you. Even though you probably have thoughts, I just need you to listen.” At first, this was a hard adjustment, but once she figured out when to listen and when to advise, it deepened their relationship on a new level. (22:06) Concerning mental health, Jeremy says the best thing that parents can do is be mindful. He recounts the first time he told his mom that he was seeing a therapist. Her first reaction was, “What’s wrong? What’s wrong with you?” which she quickly backtracked when she saw how hurt he was by her reaction. So, instead of saying more, she listened. Jeremy then explained that his therapist is no different from working with a strength coach or trainer for basketball. For him, therapy is a way for him to become stronger and more equipped to understand himself and navigate life. Once they reached that understanding, her viewpoint changed. She even remarked that if she had been able to afford a therapist at a younger age, she might have made different choices, and her life would have looked differently. For Jeremy, this was a massive turnaround from her initial reaction. “You’ve got to have room for grace on both ends because it’s not going to be perfect. My parents will say things that hurt me, and I’ll say things that hurt them amidst this process. But I think, if you’re coming from a place of respect and really trying to listen to the other person, I do think good progress will be made.” (24:30) Jeremy adds that for children, he advises them to open up to their parents. In the beginning, “It’s awkward, and I’ve tried to do that in many different ways,” He recounts the first time he told his dad, “I love you,” and how it was so awkward because he didn’t respond the first three to five times. “But I kept hitting it with him every so often, and then finally, he’s like, you know, ‘love you.’ And now it’s more normal to say, ‘I love you’…but it some steps of courage for sure.” (26:35)
On the topic of mental health, we asked Shirley whether she would have done anything differently, knowing what she knows now. “I probably would still do a lot of focus on academics,” says Shirley. But for her, academics wasn’t just about learning to gain knowledge. It was a training process for self-discipline and time management. She recalls how Jeremy couldn’t hang out and have fun during downtime at traveling tournaments or at youth retreats and conferences. Instead, he needed to take his online classes and homework. Though it was tough at the time, he gained the soft skills that he needed to help him through his Harvard years and even his NBA career. (27:22) One thing that Shirley would approach differently was to give her son more support, like listening to him more when he said he was stressed. At the time, it often sounded like he was nagging. Now, she sees it differently, thanks to the many conversations she’s had with her son about those years. “I think that during that time, I should have listened to him more…and explained to him more why I’m doing what I’m doing. And give him more positive comments [to let him know he’s doing great]. You know, I think as Asian parents, a lot of time, we just focused on what’s being done versus what’s been done.” (28:24)
Similarly, we asked Jeremy what he would have done differently. “If I could succinctly summarize it, it won’t all fall under this umbrella, but the most common theme was that I felt like I knew what was best for me,” says Jeremy. Like many teenagers and young adults, he often felt growing up that his parents did not understand. He would think to himself, “I’m more mature now…my parents don’t know what they are talking about. They just don’t understand. They just see things differently.” (29:20) It took a relationship-changing conversation to change thinking. “I would advise every single child to do this with their parents [because] it completely changed my perspective,” shares Jeremy. One day, he took his mom out for lunch at a seafood restaurant in Half Moon Bay and later a walk on the beach, which was one of her favorite things to do. For four hours straight, he peppered her with questions about her life. He knew where she was born and where she grew up but asked her to tell her more: “What was it like? What was my grandfather that I never met like? What about my grandmother? What was your relationship with your sisters? How did you navigate school?” In hearing her story and journey, Jeremy learned how she came to the U.S., how she met his dad, how they fell in love, how they went through deep trials in their marriage, and how she experienced postpartum depression after having children. “When I left, I saw my mom in a whole new light,” shares Jeremy. He understood her thought process and why she made certain decisions, like why she had such a staunch mindset about how his NBA salary should be spent. (30:06) Jeremy had the same conversation with his dad, as there were many details in his story that he didn’t understand. “Why did you do that? Why did you think like that?” What he learned was that his dad was a prodigy from a young age. His family of seven, which included his parents and four siblings, pooled all their resources, money, hopes, and dreams in him. This allowed him to pursue a higher education, which placed pressure on him to score the most elevated and get into the best schools so that he could eventually send money back home and lift up the family. In learning his dad’s story, Jeremy now understood the pressure that he was under as an immigrant to the United States. This experience was so powerful that Jeremy now urges every child to understand their parents’ story. (31:42)
When we asked Shirley for her account of what it was like getting to know her son as an adult, she shared a similar sentiment. Shirley shared how the most significant adjustment was changing her mindset. “He’s an adult, so we [are] more like friend to friend instead of mother to son.” While she was still very much his mom, she realized that she needed to treat him with respect like an adult. “I think as a parent, usually, we are kind of like a strong figure [where] we handle everything [for our children, and they] just take it. But as he grew up…I share what’s on my mind, [whether it's] my frustration or my happiness, and show him more appreciation and give more compliments. I think that helps build our relationship. (33:42)
Moving to another topic, we discussed Jeremy’s work off the court as an impact investor through the JLIN LLC and as a philanthropist with the Jeremy Lin Foundation. Specifically, we asked him what has guided his decision-making with these two organizations. To answer this question, Jeremy recalled a conversation with Patricia Sun, CEO of JLIN LLC, about the organization’s long-term goal and legacy. “What we decided together [was that] we wanted to redefine love for the next generation.” As he describes it, “The love of Jesus is a different, deeper, more sacrificial, more person-oriented level of love than the superficial type of love that you hear about in different places in society.” The challenge that he is taking on is: how can we bring that type of love to the world to exemplify and model? (34:50) For JLIN LLC, this mission influences what the organization endorses and how it wants to make an impact. This means being very conscious about why they believe in making a specific investment and why they believe that investment will help the next generation. For example, they invested in a company that bought a plot of land that was turned into condos. While there is a profit from selling and renting those condos, the company has been intentional in giving preference to those who may find it harder to qualify as a buyer or renter in a capital-driven market, such as single-family parents and widows. (35:47) On the non-profit side, the Jeremy Lin Foundation, headed by Executive Director Stephanie Hsu and in partnership with Patricia Sun, is focused on work to support underprivileged children, specifically AAPI youth, but also efforts for cross-racial solidarity. “I can go on and on, but really, our two biggest hubs are the San Francisco Bay Area and New York City, where we recently launched the Stronger Together Collaborative. (37:11)
Expanding further, we asked how Jeremy’s own experience in education and academics shaped how and where he invests. Jeremy believes education can be a game changer, but where the JLIN LLC and Jeremy Lin Foundation focus its efforts isn’t necessarily on the learning. In some cases, where they’ve had the most significant impact was by providing better access to resources, like vitamins and supplements to keep kids healthy or helping them afford eyeglasses. Jeremy also shares that since the COVID-19 pandemic, they’ve seen an increase in requests for mental health resources from teachers and even curricula about building self-confidence. He concludes by saying, “We try to take small steps [versus trying to solve every problem and] do right by the process and hope that we achieve a good result.” (37:43)
Bringing it back to Glowing Up Asian, we asked Jeremy whether his parents were intentional about teaching him and his brothers about their heritage growing up. “I think that’s something that I would say my parents would probably say they have some regrets [about, though] I think they’ve done some really good things,” Jeremy explains that one of his most formative memories and experience was taking a family trip to Taiwan in middle school. Taking such a trip was a considerable expense for the family of five, something they could only afford once every 10 years. On a more day-to-day basis, they did celebrate traditional holidays as a family. Still, he notes that “I think they wish they taught me a little bit more about why things are the way they are, like Dragon Boat Festival, Moon Festival, [and other traditions like this] …as well as maybe being a bit more strong about enforcing Chinese.” By his account, he and his brothers did a poor job of learning Mandarin Chinese until their 20s, during which they proactively learned on their own. But cultural traditions and heritage language aside, Jeremy notes that his parents “never wanted me to be ashamed of my culture though, that’s for sure.” He shares how his mom and dad were “pretty unapologetic about” inviting others to learn about their culture and sharing their culture with the world. (39:31)
Diving a little more into his experience learning and becoming more fluent in Mandarin Chinese as an adult, we asked Jeremy what he wished he would have done differently growing up to discover his heritage language. “I would say that I really regret not trying harder…I just never felt like it was worth my time and effort,” Jeremy shares. “You learn so much faster when you’re younger, and you have so much more time to use what you learn when you’re younger, and I just really regret not doing even the small things like replying in Chinese to my parents.” Growing up, his parents always spoke to him in Chinese, but he would always reply in English, especially at home, where it’s more forgiving to make mistakes. “Even if it was like I had to speak Chinglish and mix stuff in, and it was like, damn, like I just wish I was a little bit more bold and uncomfortable.” As Jeremy elaborates, he wishes that he was more okay with failure because that’s a massive part of life and growth. When you learn a language, you need to put yourself in a situation where you’re constantly failing. But even if you say the wrong thing or could have worded things better, these mistakes are ultimately what help you learn. (41:49)
Since Jeremy had to catch his flight after finishing that last thought, we wrapped up the conversation with final thoughts from Shirley, starting with her take on teaching her sons their culture and heritage language. “It [was] very, very hard,” Shirly recalls. Following a typical pattern among Asian immigrant families, Mandarin Chinese was her eldest son’s first language. But once he started school, “he just automatically switched to English.” Even when she spoke to her children in Chinese, they would respond in English. It got to a point where she just had to talk in English with them. But now that her sons have grown and some work in Asia, they took the initiative to learn Chinese as an adult. Now, they speak to their mom in Chinese more and even text her in Chinese. Shirley summarized it best when she said, “Yeah, when there is a need, they will know that it’s actually good for them [and they will learn]. But it [was] very hard during their younger age.” (43:04)
We conclude with final thoughts from Shirley on her hope for the next generation of parents raising their own children now. Shirley starts by advising parents to focus on character building as a foundation. “It doesn’t matter how successful you are. If you don’t have an honorable character, then [nothing else matters]. (45:07) Shirley also hopes parents understand that “our kids [do] not belong to us. They have their [own] identity, and they most likely will be different than who we are. So we have to accept who they are and also be truthful to ourselves.” The infamous piano lessons are an example of this. When Shirley was young, her mom signed her up for piano lessons, but she would “just find ways to escape.” As an adult, she regretted not learning to play the piano, which was a big reason why she wanted her sons to learn. “But they are not me. That’s not their dream. They will not feel that way.” When we as parents understand ourselves and our own motivations, we can recognize what we want versus what our children want. (45:50) “Be open-minded,” advises Shirley. Society is constantly changing, so we as parents must adapt if we want to be able to help them. By helpful, she means helping when our children need help and also helping them understand who they are. When kids tell you that they want to do something, support and help them explore, but let them figure out whether it’s something they really want. This came into play when Jeremy said he wanted to be a dentist and NBA player. On the latter, when Jeremy told her that he thought he could become an NBA player, she was like, “Oh really? Okay. So what do you want to do? You want to go through some training?” This led to Jeremy attending the NBA’s summer training camps, during which Shirley talked to coaches and others to confirm that he actually had the potential and that this wasn’t an out-of-the-blue dream. To summarize, these things – being supportive, resourceful, and open-minded – are how we can, as parents, help our children be successful in life and in their careers. (47:07)
Meet Jeremy
Jeremy Lin and his rise to prominence spread like wildfire during February 2012, when he took over the starting point guard role for the struggling New York Knicks and began one of the most improbable journeys sports has ever seen. Suddenly, everybody was following the inspiration of Lin that is forever known as “Linsanity.” A native of Palo Alto, CA, Lin is one of the only Asian-American players to ever play in the NBA. Overcoming innumerable obstacles, Lin’s road to the NBA was not easy—he was always overlooked and was believed to be the only California Division II Player of the Year to not receive a Division I scholarship. Prior to his NBA career, Lin played four seasons at Harvard and was an All-Ivy first team selection two times (2009, 2010). Lin graduated with a degree in Economics and a minor in Sociology from Harvard. Lin launched JLIN LLC and the Jeremy Lin Foundation in 2011. JLIN LLC is a mission-driven management company that strives to create positive change through brand partnerships, content creation, philanthropy, and investing in Asia and the U.S. The Jeremy Lin Foundation’s mission is to love and serve overlooked AAPI and muti-racial youth by supporting comprehensive programs through narrative change, community empowerment, and cross racial solidarity. Since inception, the Foundation has partnered with more than 30 community-based nonprofits, and collectively current grantees serve more than 35,000 low-income AAPI and multi-racial youth. Lin currently plays for the New Taipei Kings with his brother Joseph Lin in the PLeague+ and East Asian Super League.
Learn more about JLIN LLC: LinkedIn
Learn more about: Jeremy Lin Foundation
LinkedIn | Facebook | Instagram | X (Twitter)
